Ronald George Dawson and his navigator: part one

Collection Dawson family

In 2011 I hadn’t look for more information on who were “Shorty” Dawson, Kit Cotter and for that matter Jim Coley.

“Shorty” Dawson, “Kit” Cotter, “Sticky” Murphy, “Baron” Goldie, Norman Conquer, Jim Coley and three Maltese young women were posing for posterity on Remembrance Day November 11, 1943.

The above picture was shared in 2011 by George Stewart, a 23 Squadron pilot, whom I had visited at his home in Hamilton, Ontario. George Stewart, who wanted me to call him George, had invited me so I could learn more about 23 Squadron.

To be honest I had never noticed the date of November 11 being more interested with “Baron” Goldie’s story.

This is post No. 504 where I am still learning and writing more about 23 Squadron when readers are asking for my help.

Request from Graham Topping

Someone had left a comment last month after I had written that post…

Loved the photos thanks very much. My uncle was a pilot with 464 squadron Ron (shorty) Dawson sadly he was shot down and lost his life on his way out after Operation Carthage: R.A.F. Mosquito Raid in Copenhagen March 1945.

Unfortunately I only have 1 photo.

THEY WERE ALL BRAVE MEN AND WILL BE REMEMBERED!

Best Regards

Gary Dawson

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I had not connected the dots but had asked Gary Dawson if he could scan the photo. Gary hasn’t replied yet.

Then I got this private message last week…

I found your site when doing a Google search for R G Dawson RAAF, or rather bounced to it via another comment on the RAF Commands forum.

The only reference here was in a photo from “Peter Smith’s document”

https://no23squadron.wordpress.com/2012/08/02/hector-goldie-and-his-navigator-part-two/

Of course, I’m now interested in what else was in that document about “Shorty” Dawson. Ronald was killed in action near Copenhagen in March 1945, on his 2nd tour of duty.

(Date: 21 Mar 45 Aircraft: Mosquito FB.VI SZ999 Unit 464 Sqdn )

He could have been back in Australia in 1944 but wrote to his mother:

“Well Mother I suppose you have been wondering why I turned down the offer of a ticket back to Australia, it took quite a lot of deciding and at the time I thought, whichever I decided I would probably be sorry, especially being away from home so long. Anyway I should know my own mind. The fact of the matter is, which will probably come as a shock to you, I became engaged about two months ago. Now that you have heard the worst I had better tell you a little about her. Well her name is Joyce Schofield and she comes from Burnley, Lancashire. Joyce has just turned twenty-two and is a member of the WAAF. I first met her about seven months ago at the same camp as I was stationed during my rest period. I have been to her home several times on leave and met her people. They are quite a nice family and just ordinary people and I’m sure you’d like them. I’m sure if you knew Joyce too you would immediately be with me in saying that I have done the right thing. I wont go into details to tell you how much I think of her, I’ll just leave that to you own imagination.”

Joyce was my father-in-law’s cousin. I am now helping Ronald’s niece find out more about Joyce, but also delving into Ronald’s spell in Europe.

Any more information that you can share will be greatly appreciated.

Google search?

To be continued…

Hector Goldie and his Navigator: part three

This is part 3 of Hector Goldie and his Navigator: part 2 which was written more than ten years ago…

Hector Goldie and his Navigator: part two (link)

This is what I had written…

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Yesterday was the busiest day on this blog about 23 Squadron. I am not surprised because Vicki has now all the answers she was looking for and much much more. I think she has been reading some of my other posts as well as her husband and her son.

This is post No. 90  about 23 Squadron, a little known RAF Squadron based at Little Snoring. Here is Vicki’s father-in-law Hector Goldie with his navigator Norman Conquer.

This is taken from Peter Smith’s manuscript who yesterday sent Vicki everything he had about her father-in-law. Peter does not keep what he found about 23 Squadron to himself, and Peter gave me the green light to write about Hector Goldie and his navigator on this blog using excerpts from his manuscript.

This story is amazing because it shows how brave these men were.

Imagine it’s a movie…

In the above picture taken from George Stewart private collection, another 23 Squadron pilot, we see ‘Shorty’ Dawson, Kit Cotter, Sticky Murphy, Baron Goldie, Norman Conquer and Jim Coley. The Maltese girls’ names are unknown.

You have surely noticed the nicknames given to these airmen. Shorty, Kit , Sticky, Baron. Where does the Baron nickname come from…? I could give you the answer right away, but I would spoiled the ending.

We will start with this first part of Peter’s manuscript he sent me two days ago… I will be posting several articles because of the amount of information on Hector “the Baron” Goldie.  Norman Conquer was one of the Squadron’s senior Navigators. He and his pilot, Hector “Baron” Goldie, had crewed up at an Operational Training Unit (O.T.U.) where they had both ended up before being posted to 23 Squadron in 1943, where upon they had joined the Squadron in Malta, the normal route via the Bay of Biscay and Gibraltar.

However Norman was not a new recruit but he was like many others in the Squadron who had joined up in 1939 and 1940. Unlike many others in the Squadron Norman would be on his first tour of “ops” on the offensive. His path there had been perhaps more difficult than many of the others.

At the outbreak of war he had been all set to follow a different path. He had been already to join the BBC in fact. To be precise the BBC Philharmonic Symphony Orchestra, as well as “touring” a small dance band of his own.

In December 1939 he had volunteered at Uxbridge as a pilot, and being a keen type (as most of the Chaps at 23 were) had volunteered for immediate duty, to fly of course, but had been “persuaded” to do one tour as a Navigator. So Norman had promptly found himself part of an RAF Gunnery squad on ground defence in Blackpool, since it would take time for the aircrew receiving centre to call prospective aircrew up for actual flying duties.

Norman Conquer, far right second row “Gunnery Squad”
(Courtesy of Norman Conquer)

While there were some benefit’s, such as the very hospitable Blackpool landlady who made them feel as though they were part of the family, a real home away from home. However it was not to last and with his unit he was soon at White Waltham in Berkshire “training”. However this too would only last a couple of months before a posting to Dumfries in Scotland. This was not the way young Conquer envisaged his notable talents being utilised, and he had got to the point, some ten months after joining, where he was almost resigned to the fact that this was “his lot”, when in mid-December he would be informed that he had been posted to No. 10 Initial Training Wing at Scarborough. He was on the move again.

At 10 ITW he would form several close friendships, Norman would later write,

Of the four I was closest too, one failed to survive training, two were lost on operations, and the last was the sole survivor of an entire Squadron destroyed in one raid in the Mediterranean.

Other Squadron members, who had started this early in the war, would all tell a very similar story, by the time the war ended. Norman’s training would continue in earnest, with in March ’41 a move to No. 10 Bombing and Gunnery School, where, that’s right “Dumfries”, again. His first experience in a “Harrow” did not fill either him or any of his colleagues with confidence.

An air experience flight in a “Harrow” did not create quite the impression we imagined our instructors wished to convey. I presume the pilot on that occasion had actually flown before – but perhaps he thought we would be more at home if we felt that he too was a beginner…

(Author’s note: a Handley Page “Harrow” was a twin engine heavy bomber designed and built in the 1930s).

Next time, more on The Baron and Norman Conquer.

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To be continued with a tribute to Ronald “Shorty” Dawson.

Remembering…

This blog is all about remembering…

I have recently found your website concerning 23 Squadron and the De Havilland Mosquito. I’m very interested in finding out more about the activities of the squadron in the first few years of WW2 because my uncle, Sergeant Malcom Cook, flew as an observer/navigator with 23 Sqdn. I am proud to have his log book, covering his early training in 1941 to the final entry on 8th September 1942 flying Mosquito YP-U on an intruder mission.

Just below, the final entry says “Death Presumed 9/9/42”.

Do you have any information on the activities of the squadron around this time? I believe they were stationed at RAF Ford on the south coast but I have little further detail. Looking forward to finding out more!

Best regards

Jim.

To be continued on Sunday…

Remembrance Day 2020 – William Herbert Rogers (1920-1944)

Updated 27 December 2020

New comment:

Hello, my name is Michele Becchi, I was researching about WWII planes shot down over my province (Reggio Emilia, north Italy). I collected some informations from an eyewitness, he was at the local cinema when the sirens gave the alarm signal.

…All the spectators ran out just in time to see the German flak around the Sorbolo bridge open fire. Suddenly a trail of fire was seen crossing the sky on the Reggio’s side of the Enza river. The Germans suddenly went bad and forced everyone to clear out. The next day I went to look around the place where the small plane crashed, an engine lay a short distance from the burnt remains. soon the rumor spread that one of the two aviators had died and the other had been captured. The remains of the plane were taken away by the Germans.

There were more updates before…

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This is an update of an update about the navigator.

Good morning Pierre,

I thought it appropriate for today to email the attached picture to you, which brings home the reality of that war even to those such as me who of course have no direct experience of it.

Regards,

Richard

This was the first update…

After the war my father joined the BBC and worked for them till 1969. He was involved in the Nuremberg trials in Germany but as you will know most of the people who survived the war rarely spoke about their experiences of that time. He was briefly posted to Germany working for the BBC overseas network back in 1951. My father married my mother in 1950 and my twin sister and I were born in 1951. My younger sister was born in 1954. My father and the family spent 3 years in Sydney Australia on an exchange with the BBC and  the Australian broadcasting corporation from 1956 to 1959 when we returned to Britain. We eventually moved to Edgbaston in Birmingham where he became Head of the Midland Region of the BBC until 1969. He then spent 3 years in Singapore as an advisor with the British overseas commission. On his return he was then sent to Tonga for a 2 year stint. He had become a specialist in multilingual broadcasting. On his return to Britain he took up simultaneous translation for visiting Germans and also translated german technical papers. Of course he was fluent in German and spoke it like a native! Sadly he developed Motor Neurone Disease and died in 1990. He was still working on translations and was teaching himself Isaiah and Chinese. He was fluent in German, French and Italian as well as having a working knowledge of Dutch. He was highly intelligent and did not suffer fools gladly. That is not to say that he was unkind but he had a brilliant wit! He kept in touch with several well known actors who he met during the war.

T

This was the original post…

This blog is all about remembering the Fallen and also those who survived.

Collection Theo Griffiths (courtesy Richard Cooper)

According to my genealogical research, William Herbert Rogers was born on April 8, 1920, in Teignmouth, Devon, England. His father was William Morrott Rogers and his mother was Ellen Elizabeth Passmore (maiden name to be validated). He had one brother Earnest and two sisters Ada Winifred and Nellie (to be validated also). 

Mosquito FB Mark VI, serial HJ674, of 23 Squadron, was lost in an intruder mission over Sorbolo in the Province of Parma. The plane took off from Alghero, Sardinia, in the night of February 6,1944. The crew was F/Lt (64901) David Leslie Porter (pilot) RAFVR was taken prisoner and F/O (147669) William Herbert ROGERS (navigator) RAFVR – was killed.

F/Lt David Leslie Porter survived and became a prisoner of war. He was taken to Stalag Luft 3 according to my research. His navigator is buried in the Milan War Cemetery.

William Herbert Rogers is remembered on this Website.

Readers have contributed to this blog since 2010 when it was first created. RAF 23 Squadron was unknown to me as well as the pilots and navigators. Little by little my knowledge grew with each comment. Since 2010 there were more than 1,000 comments made.

This is post No. 420 which follows post No. 419.

Someday someone will probably comment on William Herbert Rogers or David Leslie Porter who survived the war. If this happens, my interest about 23 Squadron will be rekindled once more, and I will write another post.

This blog is all about remembering the Fallen and also those who survived.

William Herbert Rogers and David Leslie Porter are probably on this group picture. I have no way to tell. 

A Flight 23 Squadron
10 November 1943
Naples

Naples – 10 November 1943

23 Squadron was stationed at Malta and after at Naples where this group photo was taken on November 1943.

Theo Griffiths was there in the back. This photo was part of his collection which was shared by his son-in-law.

The original was glued on this album page with a caption…

A Flight 23 SQDN
10/11/43
NAPLES

 

Only a few pilots and navigators have been identified since I have started researching this photo.

Remembering Bentley and Causeway

Today two more airmen might have been identified.

The man kneeling with the sign would be William Herbert Rogers and on his left would be his pilot David Leslie Power with his arm on William’s shoulder.

David Leslie Porter had been remembered by his daughter in a comment.

I am the daughter of David Leslie Porter who was a prisoner of war in Stalagluft 3 back in 1944. If you want to know what he did after the war I will be very happy to help.

William Herbert Rogers is now been remembered by his nephew with this comment…

Writing in response to the original blog on William Herbert Rogers, from Malta where my mother met my father, Ernest, William’s brother in 1947. My father died before I was born in 1963 and I would say that he is one of the middle 2 kneeling, judging by family resemblance. His brothers were Ernest and Roy, and I have a communication between my father and William shortly before William was killed that they were looking forward to a pint together in Teignmouth (my father was in the RN). Their sisters were Ada (died aged 24 I think, in the 1920s), Nell and Joyce. Ironically I was in the RAFVR whilst at University 40 years after William being killed in action. I would love to hear from the descendants of David Porter as I had always assumed both pilot and navigator were killed at the same time, to see if he ever spoke of the incident plus as pilot and navigator they would have had many experiences together which would be fascinating to hear.

Update

Richard sent me this to compare with the group photo…

I say it’s him. (see my montage)

No one else looks like him in the group photo. We can make out who are the pilots and the navigators with the insignias they wear. It would make sense pilots and navigators would be close together in the photo. So my guess is William is the one in front of the sign.

 

The story behind a comment

Updated 10 May 2023

Nothing found yet…

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This comment deserves to be shared. I am hoping someone might help this reader.

Hi Pierre

It’s been a while since I was last in touch with you (2014) regarding a sand coloured bag from a car boot sale and that it had written on the side of the bag is the name of F/L J R Tracey (John Robert Tracey)

23 Squadron

The reason I am asking is I was wondering if you ever got any feedback from anyone regarding this chap you did send me some info.

I am still very curious and any other info would be greatly appreciated.

You said that you have found out that he was a Flight Lieutenant (War Substantive) 1943 general duties branch that’s all I know so far.

| Date: | 11-APR-1945

| | Time:

| | | Type: | de Havilland Mosquito FB.Mk VI

| | Owner/operator: | 605 (County of Warwick) Sqn RAF

| | Registration: | PZ464

| | C/n / msn:

| | | Fatalities:

| Fatalities: 2 / Occupants: 2

| | Airplane damage: | Written off (damaged beyond repair)

| | Location: | Near Berlín – Germany

| | Phase: | En route

| | Nature: | Military

| | Departure airport: | B.71 Coxyde (B)

| | Destination airport:
| |

Narrative: PZ464 FBVI 605 Missing from night intruder 11.4.45 Crew: F/Lt (62690) John Robert TRACEY (pilot) RAFVR – killed F/Lt (131.763) Frank BERESFORD (nav.) na PZ464.

Strange as it may seem, his family lived in Birmingham six or seven miles from where I live. I live on the West Bromwich/Dudley border in an area called the Black Country due to all the industry or the lack of it these days. I live on top of hill where we can see for miles around Birmingham, West Bromwich Dudley, Halesowen, Cradley Heath, etc. All heavy industrial areas. We had on the top of the hill where I live AAA barracks and anti-aircraft guns one of the large guns inherited the name Big Bertha on one sad occasion they fired a faulty round. It landed a couple of miles away on the boat pub were a wedding party were having there celebration so many killed and injured.

Intruder mission, I think. flying around German aerodromes waiting for night fighters coming in to refuel and rearm.

They were called Night Bandits. I wrote something on the blog.

He may have been a footballer before the war?

I have been trying to find out if he did play for Nott’s County FC. I have checked the date of birth and there were no other people born around the same time as he was with the same name so it is still possible he could have played I seem to be drawing a blank, what type of mission do you think he was on and how sad for him to have died less than 1 month from the end of the war in Europe.

I found this on an Aussie site. It says that PZ464 belonged to various squadrons at different stages in its life 605 sqn, 464 sqn, RAAF 605 sqn and then I presume 23 sqn where it didn’t return from its mission with both on board killed.

Where can I find out the date the aircraft was registered? I will have another look tomorrow to see if I can find out anything more about the aircrew. Please keep me informed if you come across info as I find it all very interesting.

You also said you could not find anywhere in your notes about 23 Squadron with those two airmen’s names during that time period.

Tracey must have been doing his second or third tour. This is what is most interesting. RAF airmen flew more than one tour of operations. His name is not honoured anywhere!

This is why I want to find more about him and the bag is just a pretext. You have history in your hands my friend! You said we have to write this and pay homage to this pilot and navigator.

I would love to find out what medals he would have been awarded and any other theatres of operations he may have flown in.

Kind Regards (Keep up the good work you do)

Steve Gilbert

What we know…

Source

23 Squadron
21/22-July-1943
HJ761
FB.VI
YP-E
Ju 88 Destroyed at Foggia, Italy
F/L J.R. Tracey and F/O F. Beresford
23 Squadron
21/22-July-1943
HJ761
FB.VI
YP-E
Ju 88 Probably destroyed at Foggia, Italy
F/L J.R. Tracey and F/O F. Beresford

Remembrance Day 2018 – William Herbert Rogers (1920-1944)

Update about the pilot

After the war my father joined the BBC and worked for them till 1969. He was involved in the Nuremberg trials in Germany but as you will know most of the people who survived the war rarely spoke about their experiences of that time. He was briefly posted to Germany working for the BBC overseas network back in 1951. My father married my mother in 1950 and my twin sister and I were born in 1951. My younger sister was born in 1954. My father and the family spent 3 years in Sydney Australia on an exchange with the BBC and  the Australian broadcasting corporation from 1956 to 1959 when we returned to Britain. We eventually moved to Edgbaston in Birmingham where he became Head of the Midland Region of the BBC until 1969. He then spent 3 years in Singapore as an advisor with the British overseas commission. On his return he was then sent to Tonga for a 2 year stint. He had become a specialist in multilingual broadcasting. On his return to Britain he took up simultaneous translation for visiting Germans and also translated german technical papers. Of course he was fluent in German and spoke it like a native! Sadly he developed Motor Neurone Disease and died in 1990. He was still working on translations and was teaching himself Isaiah and Chinese. He was fluent in German, French and Italian as well as having a working knowledge of Dutch. He was highly intelligent and did not suffer fools gladly. That is not to say that he was unkind but he had a brilliant wit! He kept in touch with several well known actors who he met during the war.

T

 

ORIGINAL POST

This blog is all about remembering the Fallen and also those who survived.

Collection Theo Griffiths (courtesy Richard Cooper)

According to my genealogical research, William Herbert Rogers was born on April 8, 1920, in Teignmouth, Devon, England. His father was William Morrott Rogers and his mother was Ellen Elizabeth Passmore (maiden name to be validated). He had one brother Earnest and two sisters Ada Winifred and Nellie (to be validated also). 

Mosquito FB Mark VI, serial HJ674, of 23 Squadron, was lost in an intruder mission over Sorbolo in the Province of Parma. The plane took off from Alghero, Sardinia, in the night of February 6,1944. The crew was F/Lt (64901) David Leslie Porter (pilot) RAFVR was taken prisoner and F/O (147669) William Herbert ROGERS (navigator) RAFVR – was killed.

F/Lt David Leslie Porter survived and became a prisoner of war. He was taken to Stalag Luft 3 according to my research. His navigator is buried in the Milan War Cemetery.

William Herbert Rogers is remembered on this Website.

Readers have contributed to this blog since 2010 when it was first created. RAF 23 Squadron was unknown to me as well as the pilots and navigators. Little by little my knowledge grew with each comment. Since 2010 there were more than 1,000 comments made.

This is post No. 420 which follows post No. 419.

Someday someone will probably comment on William Herbert Rogers or David Leslie Porter who survived the war. If this happens, my interest about 23 Squadron will be rekindled once more, and I will write another post.

This blog is all about remembering the Fallen and also those who survived.

William Herbert Rogers and David Leslie Porter are probably on this group picture. I have no way to tell. 

A Flight 23 Squadron
10 November 1943
Naples

Another request

This time it is from someone in Brazil…

I NEED INFORMATION ABOUT A MOSQUITO RAF PILOT IN MALTA. HE HAD WHITE HAIR AND VICTORIES . I SAW HIM ONLY ONCE ON BOOK CALLED ” MOSQUITO, THE WOOD WONDER “.

CAN YOU HELP ME ?

LUIZ CAMACHO

UPDATE

HIS NAME COULD BE WHITAKER

Remembrance Day 2018 – William Herbert Rogers (1920-1944)

This blog is all about remembering the Fallen and also those who survived.

Collection Theo Griffiths (courtesy Richard Cooper)

According to my genealogical research, William Herbert Rogers was born on April 8, 1920, in Teignmouth, Devon, England. His father was William Morrott Rogers and his mother was Ellen Elizabeth Passmore (maiden name to be validated). He had one brother Earnest and two sisters Ada Winifred and Nellie (to be validated also). 

Mosquito FB Mark VI, serial HJ674, of 23 Squadron, was lost in an intruder mission over Sorbolo in the Province of Parma. The plane took off from Alghero, Sardinia, in the night of February 6,1944. The crew was F/Lt (64901) David Leslie Porter (pilot) RAFVR was taken prisoner and F/O (147669) William Herbert ROGERS (navigator) RAFVR – was killed.

F/Lt David Leslie Porter survived and became a prisoner of war. He was taken to Stalag Luft 3 according to my research. His navigator is buried in the Milan War Cemetery.

William Herbert Rogers is remembered on this Website.

Readers have contributed to this blog since 2010 when it was first created. RAF 23 Squadron was unknown to me as well as the pilots and navigators. Little by little my knowledge grew with each comment. Since 2010 there were more than 1,000 comments made.

This is post No. 420 which follows post No. 419.

Someday someone will probably comment on William Herbert Rogers or David Leslie Porter who survived the war. If this happens, my interest about 23 Squadron will be rekindled once more, and I will write another post.

This blog is all about remembering the Fallen and also those who survived.

William Herbert Rogers and David Leslie Porter are probably on this group picture. I have no way to tell. 

A Flight 23 Squadron
10 November 1943
Naples

Remembrance Day 2018

This blog is all about remembering the Fallen.

I found this message in my inbox this morning as I was cleaning it up.

Hello, thanks for your wonderful blog. Nothing about Captain D. Porter and Lieut. W.H. Rogers? They died on February 6, 1944 near my town (Reggio Emilia).

I felt it was important to follow up on it. I did not have anything about this crew so I asked for more information.

The reply was as fast as a Mosquito!

Mosquito FB-VI serial HJ674, 23 Squadron, lost in an intruder mission over SORBOLO (Province of Parma), from ALGHERO, in the night of February 6,1944. Crew F/Lt (64901) David Leslie PORTER (pilot) RAFVR – PoW and F/O (147669) William Herbert ROGERS (nav.) RAFVR – killed.

This is how I still start…

http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=72781

I know some of my readers might help with this.